Sunday, 2 September 2018

In Defence Of Divorce

"And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery--unless his wife has been unfaithful." Matthew 19:9

"Let no one split apart what God has joined together." Mark 10:9

Christ's teaching seems clear and unequivocal.

So, at the risk of my unpopularity let us consider this teaching in today's modern world. We live in a broken society indeed, and everywhere, the pursuit of self seems to be put to the fore at the expense of personal responsibilities and promises made under oath to God and one's spouse.

It is indeed true and achievable that a couple remain together through thick and thin "till death do us part!" Previous generations managed it all right; so why not us, one would wonder. Why is the rate of divorce so high these days? Have we made it easier and guilt-free perhaps?

Let us consider for a moment what marriage is. It is the union of a man and a woman in an equal basis of mutual respect and love and caring for each other. Marriage is a relationship of equals loving and respecting each other. If one party abuses the other then that relationship is no longer loving in the eyes of God, and therefore God would not wish it to continue so that one party suffers at the hands of the other! 

God did not create marriage so that one partner becomes superior and abuses the other.

In Christ's teaching above, He seems to make an exception as to when divorce is acceptable, or allowed. But what would He teach in modern society?

When one spouse is perhaps addicted to drink, drugs, gambling, crime or indeed there's violence in the marriage? 

Does "till death do us part" still apply? Would God want that a couple remain together in a living hell where violence to the spouse and children are almost a daily occurrence? 

Does God want us to "stand by your man" (or woman), come what may and treat the affliction as a disease, which perhaps it is, and suffer "in sickness and in health"?

Let us not make light of divorce. It is arguably the most shattering of experiences one can go through in life and causes immeasurable hurt not only to the spouse, but to children and family and friends too. The feelings of betrayal, failure and complete despair never goes away with some people. But tragically, divorce is a fact of life. 

There are cases where, for the safety and well-being of all concerned, divorce, with all its ugly implications, is the only way ahead. 

It is wrong, totally wrong, but at times one should do the wrong thing for the right reasons.

Many churches have now pragmatically accepted that divorce is at times necessary. One would hope and pray that God too sees it this way when we get to meet Him.

Life after divorce can be re-built in some cases, but sadly not always. The fear of betrayal runs deep sometimes jeopardising any future relationships.

There are occasions when, after divorce, one can find love again and re-marries to live long years of happiness with a new partner. This is to be applauded and encouraged. Not frowned upon as some people tend to do.

The Catholic Church has a complicated procedure as to when a divorced person can marry again, and a previous marriage can be nullified; and when it would be "adulterous" to marry again or live with a new partner. 

Personally, I feel the Catholic Church's attitude and rules, with its many irregularities in implementations have caused more harm than good.

To nullify a marriage can be a long and difficult process taking months, if not years, depending on which priests, bishops and dioceses are involved. 

In some cases marriages are not nullified meaning that a divorced person cannot re-marry or have a partner under pain of being adulterous and therefore excommunicated - cannot take Holy Communion. Not surprisingly, under these conditions, many Catholics choose to ignore their Church altogether and either marry in a civil ceremony or in another denomination. 

In other cases, a marriage is nullified if you send in three packet tops from your favourite breakfast cereals. I have known cases where an individual has married three times; meaning that the previous two marriages were easily nullified. It all depends on who is handling your case in a Church with antiquated views on at least this subject, if not others.

No wonder Church attendances amongst Catholics are down. And so are vocations to the priesthood.

Perhaps the Catholic Church needs to reconsider its teaching and dogma on this matter. But this is a debate for another day.

35 comments:

  1. "Perhaps the Catholic Church needs to reconsider its teaching and dogma on this matter. But this is a debate for another day."

    It cannot reconsider Christ's words. Period.


    "Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”
    61
    Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you?
    62
    What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?*
    63
    It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh* is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
    64
    But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.c
    65
    And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
    66
    As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
    67
    Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”
    68
    Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." John Chpt 6

    If you want to create your own religion feel free, but don't call it Christianity, because Christianity means followers of Christ, even if it is hard.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you, Manny.

      The quotation above is from John 6 - a totally different subject to divorce. I have written about it here: http://timeforreflections.blogspot.com/2018/07/if-you-dont-believe-leave.html

      You may wish to comment on this subject there.

      However, about divorce. Do you honestly believe that God wants a marriage to last when the husband comes home drunk regularly and beats the living daylight from his wife and children? I have seen this. And Catholic priests I know have advocated divorce in such, and similar, circumstances.

      Are there any circumstances in which you would agree to divorce, Manny?

      Or does marriage for life means just that?

      I agree that Christianity means following Christ. He was caring, loving, full of mercy and forgiveness. He forgave the adulteress brought to Him for stoning. The Catholic Church, of which I am a member, does not seem to forgive divorce unless it is on its own (arrogant) terms. The way they deal with second marriages is by excommunicating people. That's mercy and forgiveness Catholic style!

      God bless.

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    5. Thank you for your contribution, Victor.

      God bless you and your family always.

      Delete
    6. Let's try again



      Manny, you said that "It cannot reconsider Christ's words. Period."

      After having heard in our church what Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior had to say about marriage, I started thinking about you and Victor #1 post and long story short, I have to agree with you that what Jesus said over two thousand years ago is just as relevant today and will be even after the judgement and I believe that no changes would please GOD (Good Old Dad) no matter how terrible His Church becomes. The Son of GOD was only one God made Man in the flesh and He's got a LOT more followers than He did back then... Although, with all the support that Abortionist, Euthanatia and same-sex-marriage have nowadays makes Global Warming seem like child's play.

      http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings/100718.cfm

      "And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery--unless his wife has been unfaithful." Matthew 19:9

      "Let no one split apart what God has joined together." Mark 10:9

      Christ's teaching seems clear and unequivocal."

      So True Victor #1 and not one human should try thinking of changing any of "IT".

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M-zwE33zHA&list=RDUxviwvjyg1w&index=7

      "In Christ's teaching above, He seems to make an exception as to when divorce is acceptable, or allowed. But what would He teach in modern society?"

      In all honesty Victor #1 ... I'm sure that He would say exactly what He said in the pass but The Devil and his angels might include cell clowning "I" mean cell clonning and the splitting of Adam, "I" mean spitting the atom cause never forget that in so many words it was said that the last will be first and the first will be laugh...

      WHO'S LAUGHING

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsMAXhc0QTs&index=8&list=RDUxviwvjyg1w
      more to follow
      "So, at the risk of my unpopularity let us consider this teaching in today's modern world. We live in a broken society indeed, and everywhere, the pursuit of self seems to be put to the fore at the expense of personal responsibilities and promises made under oath to God and one's spouse.
      If one party abuses the other then that relationship is no longer loving in the eyes of God, and therefore God would not wish it to continue so that one party suffers at the hands of the other!
      God did not create marriage so that one partner becomes superior and abuses the other."

      So very true and so very sad Victor #1 but that's no reason to change any of God's Commandments

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DdgkvnsHjM&index=9&list=RDUxviwvjyg1w

      2ND PART TO FOLLOW

      Delete
    7. 2ND PART
      "Does "till death do us part" still apply? Would God want that a couple remain together in a living hell where violence to the spouse and children are almost a daily occurrence? Does God want us to "stand by your man" (or woman), come what may and treat the affliction as a disease, which perhaps it is, and suffer "in sickness and in health"? Let us not make light of divorce. It is arguably the most shattering of experiences one can go through in life and causes immeasurable hurt not only to the spouse, but to children and family and friends too. The feelings of betrayal, failure and complete despair never goes away with some people. But tragically, divorce is a fact of life."

      All this is so sad Victor # 1 but long story short, we both know that Jesus said in so many words that Because of the hardness of human hearts Moses allowed them to write a so called bill of divorce and they made it into a commandment but GOD (Good Old Dad) never approved of "IT" so said Jesus.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE&index=10&list=RDUxviwvjyg1w

      "There are cases where, for the safety and well-being of all concerned, divorce, with all its ugly implications, is the only way ahead. It is wrong, totally wrong, but at times one should do the wrong thing for the right reasons. Many churches have now pragmatically accepted that divorce is at times necessary. One would hope and pray that God too sees it this way when we get to meet Him."




      All i can say there is that Two and/or More wrongs will never make "ONE" Left, "I" mean one right.

      WHO'S LAUGHING?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GKNbmYOAow&list=RDUxviwvjyg1w&index=11

      "Life after divorce can be re-built in some cases, but sadly not always. The fear of betrayal runs deep sometimes jeopardising any future relationships.There are occasions when, after divorce, one can find love again and re-marries to live long years of happiness with a new partner. This is to be applauded and encouraged. Not frowned upon as some people tend to do. The Catholic Church has a complicated procedure as to when a divorced person can marry again, and a previous marriage can be nullified; and when it would be "adulterous" to marry again or live with a new partner. Personally, I feel the Catholic Church's attitude and rules, with its many irregularities in implementations have caused more harm than good. To nullify a marriage can be a long and difficult process taking months, if not years, depending on which priests, bishops and dioceses are involved. In some cases marriages are not nullified meaning that a divorced person cannot re-marry or have a partner under pain of being adulterous and therefore excommunicated - cannot take Holy Communion. Not surprisingly, under these conditions, many Catholics choose to ignore their Church altogether and either marry in a civil ceremony or in another denomination. In other cases, a marriage is nullified if you send in three packet tops from your favourite breakfast cereals. I have known cases where an individual has married three times; meaning that the previous two marriages were easily nullified. It all depends on who is handling your case in a Church with antiquated views on at least this subject, if not others. No wonder Church attendances amongst Catholics are down. And so are vocations to the priesthood."
      more to follow
      Whow, Again you're right Victor #1 that our Catholic Church has really been taking a lot of people for a ride and that's very sad that about 4% evil infiltrated Our Catholic Church but does not mean that the 96% can't learn how to keep these evil possessed in honest check and to tell you the truth, at this time I'm starting to see a lot of good coming out of our church. I don't think that there's any problems that our Great GOD can't solve in HIS GOOD OLD TIME.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GKhDCsLrUg&list=RDUxviwvjyg1w&index=15

      Delete
    8. 3ND PART
      "Perhaps the Catholic Church needs to reconsider its teaching and dogma on this matter. But this is a debate for another day."
      Like Manny said Victor #1, there's no need for another debate as long as it is well with our soul, i believe that our flesh will eventually learn to deal with "IT".

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHe_qmo3gX4&list=RDUxviwvjyg1w&index=12

      I'll close by saying that these days, there's a little prayer that I say almost every day for this twenty- first century which goes something like... OH GOOD JESUS FORGIVE ME ALL MY SINS, PRESERVE ME FROM HELL'S FIRE AND LEED INTO HEAVEN ALL YOUR SOULS, ESPECIALLY ALL YOUR SOUL CELLS WHO HAVE MOST NEED OF YOUR MERCY.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smZwG-auxC8&t=8s

      GOD BLESS YOU AND YOURS Victor #1

      http://www.comepraytherosary.org/

      Delete
    9. Thank you Victor.

      God bless you and your family always.

      Delete
  2. There is a video on Youtube titled "Our divorce didn't work out" about a couple who prayed and God healed their relationship. This topic is horrifying to me. So flippantly our society throws things away. Important things. God help us.

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    Replies
    1. You are right, Sandi. Sometimes, through prayers and forgiveness marriages do survive and divorce is not the solution. I have seen this too in some married couples where one partner was regularly abusing the relationship. Through prayers, those marriages survived ... somehow. And this too is to be applauded.

      You are right that today's society seems to treat marriage, divorce and relationships flippantly. It is very sad. Beside prayers, I am not sure what else we can do. Here in the UK we have made divorce very easy. If both partners agree to divorce they can easily get a "no fault" divorce and divide the assets between them.

      God help us, indeed. And bless us.

      Delete
  3. A gut wrenching topic. Everybody loses in one way or another.

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  4. We have a good Pope who seems to see this problem.

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  5. I will not comment again for you know my feelings about divorce and the church. God knows my circumstances and will judge me accordingly. I have no power over the outcome~

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    Replies
    1. Thank you Jan. As I mentioned before, the Church, in my view, was/is wrong in the way they dealt with you.

      God bless.

      Delete
  6. My annulment took 18 months. It went to the Vatican, actually, and was not really an annulment, but rather a disillusionment. It was a long process but worth it in the end. Joe and I have been married for 33 years.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Congratulations, Terri, on your happy marriage with Joe.

      I know some people take even longer to obtain an annulment. Some never manage it. I know a case where a couple married young. The husband soon in the marriage decided he'd had enough and moved away - his wife lost all contact. She got divorced in the Court, but the Church did not give an annulment because part of the process involves interviews with the husband - who's not available to be contacted. In effect, the Church condemned this woman to not be married and find happiness again.

      God bless.

      Delete
    2. Victor, I agree with you that the "system" needs to be fixed. There are MANY things with the Catholic church that I don't agree with... we have 'discussed' a few of them before. Divorce is one of them for the very reasons you mention.

      Delete
    3. Hi Terri,

      We were told in the sermon today at Mass that by 2050 the Catholic Church will be in the minority in Europe, and elsewhere.

      Is it any wonder? There are many things the lay people do not understand or agree with. The Church is just not speaking to them.

      I feel it is like the Pharisees and the scribes. The Church places rules on the people seemingly with no compassion, love, caring or mercy. This is not what Jesus expects of His Church.

      God bless.

      Delete
  7. I'm not trying to downplay the suffering that people go through with this situation.. but I honestly don't believe that it's ever right to do the "wrong thing for the right reasons". We need to trust that God and the Church knows what is best for us, and the Church's teaching is given by God. In cases of abuse etc, my impression is that the Church allows separation? (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). But divorce and remarriage (grated first marriage is valid) goes against the meaning of what marriage is.. it is an image of Christ and the Church... and the second marriage, can never be valid, so essentially this couple is living unmarried, ie: in sin. It is wrong for any of us to receive Communion if we are living in sin, and to receive absolution everyone must make a resolution to stop the sin or sinful situation. It is the same situation with any other grave sin: we need to give it up to receive Communion without sacrilege. The pain involved in giving it up, is like a penance for us. It's something we all have to face, in various situations. The teaching of the Church is that if someone has been divorced and is then invalidly "remarried", they would need to live as brother and sister and separate. i'm not trying to downplay the suffering this can cause, but if we think the Church is wrong on something because it's painful for us, then aren't we making our own religion? I believe we are called to simply and faithfully accept the religion that God has revealed to us, and trust that He would give us the grace to live it out... it is always difficult to live a Christian life, but God's grace is powerful. He is also very merciful but we need to accept His mercy, He won't force it on us. The way we accept is through genuine repentance and trust...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello Ana. Thank you for visiting me and for commenting here. We hope you visit us again.

      The point I am trying to make is that sometimes our Catholic Church behaves in a very uncharitable and merciless way.

      Christ is/was love and forgiveness. He forgave the adulteress brought to Him for stoning. He forgave the woman at the well who had several husbands. He offered Judas Communion knowing full well what he was about to do.

      Our Church has strict rules on annulments which often cannot be abided to.

      Some common reasons for annulment in the Catholic Church are:

      At least one partner didn’t fully & freely consent. (Co-ercion, mental capacity etc ...)

      Someone wasn’t mature enough to understand the full extent of what they were doing.

      There was never intent to be faithful.

      One or both partners did not intend to be open to children.

      So, if a marriage breaks down at a later stage because of violence, criminality or whatever; the Church does not grant annulment because the breakdown of the marriage does not meet the conditions set above.

      As I mentioned to Terri, (above), the case I speak of the husband just left the marriage and moved elsewhere with someone else. He was not available for interview to hear his side of the story. No doubt, at the time of marriage, he fully intended to be faithful, (condition 3), but then in time, he changed his mind. This is not acceptable by the Church as grounds for annulment. So in effect, the lady in question was condemned to a life without love, and the opportunity to raise a family. Is that really what a loving God intends for her?

      In other cases I know, the husband became alcoholic and beat the wife and children often. Divorce was the only solution for the safety of wife and children. Yet again, the reason for divorce does not meet the conditions set out above and annulment was not granted.

      In cases of re-marriage, the Church excommunicates the individual and the person who0 marries them. This does not seem to me to be an act of forgiveness and mercy.

      The Church forgives a murderer or a thief; and does not excommunicate them. Yet, it excommunicates someone who, through no fault of their own, find themselves divorced and then able to love again.

      I am grateful for your visit and comments, Ana. I believe our Church needs to show more compassion, love and mercy as God intended, and Jesus practiced.

      God bless you.

      Delete
  8. Question from a non-Catholic. So if you have children, and then have your marriage annulled, what is the status of the children who were born in a now annulled marriage?
    Curious, Victor

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Lulu,

      I quote from a website called BiginningCatholic.com

      “Does annulment make our children illegitimate?”

      No — children of a marriage that’s determined to be invalid by a Catholic annulment, are still legitimate. (Code of Canon Law, canon 1137)

      When a couple marries, they assume the marriage is valid and was entered into in good faith. Children conceived under this assumption of a valid marriage, are considered to be legitimate.

      This fact does not change even if the marriage is later found to be not valid.

      In the United States, Catholic annulment does not affect any state civil laws. It is unrelated to civil concerns such as illegitimacy, child custody, alimony, visitation rights, or division of property.

      Whilst we're at it; another anomaly Lulu,

      If a Catholic marries in a non-Catholic church, or indeed in another religion, or in a Civil Court or even in Las Vegas. Then he divorces. He can go to a Catholic Church and get married with no problems. This is because the Catholic Church does not recognise the previous marriage since it did not take place in a Catholic Church.

      I find this very arrogant. In effect, they are saying that only Catholic Church marriages are valid in the eyes of God.

      And there's more ... if, however, the marriage in the non-Catholic Church was attended by a priest, (as guest), then the marriage is recognised and the said person cannot marry again in the Catholic Church unless/until the previous marriage is nullified.

      Sometimes I think the Catholic Church is run by lunatics. Please don't tell anyone I said this - they might excommunicate me.

      See also my next Blog post - also on this subject, but with a twist.

      By the way, how are you Lulu? Not been posting for a while. I didn't know whether to e-mail you to check you're OK or not. You might find it an imposition and tell me to **** off!

      God bless you, my friend.

      Delete
    2. Sorry Lulu,

      That's http://www.beginningcatholic.com/catholic-annulment

      My computer can't spell.

      God bless.

      Delete
    3. The Catholic Church is the perfect example of a man-made institution! Confusing! Glad to know the children are not declared illegitimate, BUT the reasoning behind this and declaring that marriage invalid are not logical. AND the mere presence of a priest at a wedding making it Catholic recognized--well Victor, I am just bumfuzzled!

      Delete
    4. Now you can understand, Lulu, why I disagree with my Church's views on so many things.

      Don't misunderstand me, I have known many good priests in my time, with compassionate attitudes to today's problems and offering practical, loving, solutions. However, they are "trapped" in a hierarchy and antiquated rules with a leadership unwilling, or unable, to change.

      I've known priests advocating divorce in certain circumstances, and helping to reach a quick "annulment" if that's what the Church wants. But sadly, it is a lottery. it depends where you live and who is your priest or bishop.

      God bless.

      Delete
  9. What a thought-full post, Victor. I've nothing of merit to add ... but appreciate having learned something today.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you, Mevely. Another post, based on real life, here soon.

      God bless.

      Delete
  10. As someone who endured the pain and sorrow of divorce, and the stigma it brings even though I'm not a Catholic, I can certainly relate to this, Victor. I have prayed often to Jesus that He would forgive me not being able to stay in this relationship, but it became emotionally abusive to the point that I had to do what I thought was right for my children and myself. Ironically, one of the reasons my husband and I grew apart, is that I became a Christian, and he absolutely couldn't tolerate the change, hence the following abuse.
    Anyway, I thank God every day for bringing Danny into my life. His is a solid, committed love that I treasure, and return, daily. Yes, I count him as a blessing every day.
    Blessings to you, Victor, and thanks for having the courage to discuss a very difficult subject.

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    Replies
    1. Thank you Martha for telling us your story here. It is indeed difficult and painful when a marriage ends in divorce. And it is indeed a blessing when someone, like you, is fortunate enough to find new love and a new beginning. That's why I feel so sad and angry when my Church stands in the way of this new love with their seemingly rigid rules and instructions.

      God bless you and your family, Martha.

      Delete
    2. Thank you for your heartfelt response, Victor. It means so much!
      Blessings always!

      Delete
    3. God bless you and your family always, Martha. You're a good friend.

      Delete

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