Let's start a discussion.
When someone dies we say they are in Heaven. This suggests that for them, a judgement has already happened and they are now either in Heaven or hell. Let's not discuss the belief in Purgatory for now.
Jesus implies this in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Luke 16:19-31
Both individuals died and Lazarus was sent to Abraham's side (meaning Heaven), and the rich man to Hades (hell).
Also, when on the Cross, Jesus said to the repentant thief that "today" he will be in Paradise.
So, this being the case, what is, and when is the final judgement? When Jesus will come and divide the goats from the sheep?
Does our judgement happen the moment we die and we go to our eventual destination? Or do we wait for judgement day?
Also, the Bible teaches that when we are "resurrected" we will have new bodies. That is, we will not be just souls but have a body. Just like Jesus did when He was resurrected.
When Jesus was transfigured on the mountain, (Matthew 17:1-9), the disciples saw Moses and Elijah with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration.They recognised them as bodies not as souls, or ghosts. So what happened I wonder? Where they already resurrected in their new bodies before the "Rapture"?
How about all the people in the past like Saint Peter, Mary, Joseph, Thomas etc ... Where are they now? In Heaven as bodies or as souls? Or are they also waiting for judgement day?
Your views and comments, especially with Bible references, would be appreciated. Especially if you know any pastors etc who could add their views too.
What do you think?
NOTE: CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHING.
...I my mind, parables are confusing.
ReplyDeleteI understand, Tom. God bless.
DeleteThe believing thief on the cross. I THINK the lord did His judging then and he did see him immediately. MY personal belief is death is like a LONG SLEEP, you know what I am saying. There are times my sleep was so good, I woke up and seems only a minute ago I was laying down. I read 'A day is a thousand years to Him, etc, so to God Time makes little or no difference. I do not believe every theology is correct, but I do not condemn either. If God's Word was not confusing to scholars, we would not have so many varying interpretations made by HONEST men.
ReplyDeleteI think you must believe and pray the prayer, "HELP MINE UNBELIEF" AND LIVE THE BEST LIFE YOU KNOW HOW TO LIVE. AND WHEN YOU FAIL, you ask HIS forgiveness.
Good post today, THANKS.
You make a good point, Jack, which I've often wondered about. Is death a long but instant sleep? To a person who died 1000 years ago it seems a long time to us; but to him it is a split second. So as soon as he dies (for him) it is the Last Judgement with the Rapture and everyone waking up with new bodies etc ... etc ...
DeleteHe'll wake up and find that many years have passed since he died.
I like the prayer "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” from Mark 9:23
God bless you and thank you for your contribution, Jack and Sherry.
PS: I NEVER say, if you don't believe like I do, YOU ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL! hOwEVeR aNy Of yAll CaN bE CoNfUsEd.
ReplyDelete;-) ;=) :-O LOL
I agree, Jack. Only God decides who goes to Heaven or Hell. I think people choose to go to Hell by the way they behave; and no one is forced to go to Heaven.
DeleteGod bless you and your family.
I'm not totally sure what I believe about when or how judgement is made. I think I've mostly thought it was immediate on death, because if not.........where does the soul go? Interesting food for thought, Victor.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with you, Sandy. Judgement is immediate. Otherwise we'd all be in a waiting room with magazines and newspapers many years old; like at the doctor's.
DeleteGod bless.
This is certainly food (manna) for thought, Victor. I'm not sure what the right answer is, if there is one. But when we've lost a loved one, it is comforting to believe that they are in heaven with Jesus rather than the alternative. We can wonder all we want about whether we are new bodies with old souls, but I'll leave that one up to God.
ReplyDeleteBlessings, my friend!
Yes I agree that when someone dies, it is comforting to know/believe that they are (already) in Heaven, and not waiting for the Final Judgement at some day in the future. Hence my mentioning the rich man and Lazarus and the repentant thief in my article.
DeleteFather Francis, whom I contacted before writing this, agrees with what I said in those two instances.
So the belief is that people are judged at death and go to their eternal destination then.
However, (this is the bit I have a little difficulty with), at the Final Judgement the dead (all of them) will be resurrected with new bodies. I've often wondered "WHY?" Why do we need new bodies in Heaven? Why can't we be there as souls/spirits?
My Church believes this (see NOTES above); and so does David Jeremiah quoting 1 Corinthians 15:35 see video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWkHa8sBY7E
Thank you for taking the time to write in, Martha. It is through discussions and asking questions that we learn from each other.
God bless you always.
Once again, you've addressed something that's often teased at my conscience. Late to the table, I'm not nearly as familiar with the Bible as you and others. And if memory serves, don't certain passages contradict one another?
ReplyDeleteAs for me and my house, I love to imagine my parents and loved ones in Heaven with Jesus.
PS - I really like the Catholic church's teaching you've shared.
Thank you Mevely for joining the discussion. Indeed, there are many things we don't understand about the Bible and its teachings. That's why every so often I post articles like this one. If there are any things you'd like discussed here in future please let me know, (by e-mail if you wish), and I'll research and post them here.
DeleteMe too, I like to believe that my parents and other loved ones are already in Heaven with Jesus; and not waiting for the Final Judgement. Father Francis, who helped me by writing the NOTES at the end of the article, seems to believe that Judgement is at the time of death, and not at a future time.
See also my response to Martha above.
Thank you and God bless you always, Mevely.
We really won't know the answers to these thoughts until we experience death for ourselves. I just know that because Jesus Christ is my Savior, whatever happens when I die will be wonderful. Time is probably defined in a totally different way in Heaven. Thought-provoking post, Mr. Moubarak.
ReplyDeleteWhat a nice thing to say, "I just know that because Jesus Christ is my Savior, whatever happens when I die will be wonderful." I like that.
DeleteTank you Barbara for that thought. God bless you.
Something to ponder over. No one has the answer and no one has told us what happens when we die. I guess we'll find out when it's time.
ReplyDeleteGood point, Bill. In the meantime we search the Bible for answers.
DeleteGod bless always.
I believe once we have asked Jesus to be our Savior, he forgives all our sins. When he died on the cross he took ALL our sins away.
ReplyDeleteHe promises that when we die if we have put our faith in him when we die we go straight to heaven.
Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would see him in paradise.
Amen Happyone. I agree with your views.
DeleteGod bless.
I agree with Barbara above...when I put my faith in Jesus Christ, I truly believe that when I die I will go immediately to be with Him in heaven, (i.e. the Thief on the Cross) The Great White Throne Judgement comes at a later point in time, and is primarily for those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life. (Revelation 20-21) Here's a link to what David Jeremiah has to say about it: https://davidjeremiah.blog/what-is-the-great-white-throne-judgment-in-revelation/ I am not a theologian or a Bible expert, "but I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I've committed unto Him until that Day." 2 Timothy 1:11-13. So therefore, I can sleep in peace knowing that whether or not I die tonight or in 20 years, I will be with Jesus. That's all that matters to me. What He does with everyone else is totally up to Him, but He is faithful and true and will do what is righteous and just.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this comment Pamela and for your link to Dr Jeremiah. I watch him frequently here on our TV in the UK, along with Joyce Meyer, R T Kendall and Steven Furtick.
DeleteYou are right in what you say. If we commit our lives to Jesus and believe Who He is we can sleep in peace in the knowledge that He will care for us in His love.
As a Christian Blog, I try from time to time to encourage discussions in articles like this one. Thank you for taking part.
God bless you.
A very timely topic! I was walking home from the grocery store this afternoon and passed a woman going the other way. She looked at me and asked "Will you go to heaven when you die?"
ReplyDeleteI hope I will go straight to Heaven, but because I'm human and make mistakes more than likely I will spend some time in Purgatory first. I wasn't going to discuss religion with the woman, though, so I answered "Yes Ma'am" and kept walking.
We all make mistakes in our lives, Kathy; yet God forgives us time and again if we confess our sins to Him and repent.
DeleteGod bless you always.
It is a conundrum, and I have no certain answers. I do wonder, however, if the God of space/time could and does make it so when we die, we are already at the final judgment, in our experience? That it, and our "particular judgment," as you put it, are one and the same because the books are opened and everyone appears before the judgment seat, then being divided into sheep and goats.
ReplyDeleteWhat you say is in line with my thinking and what Jack said above. Also our Church's teaching. Our own judgement happens straight after death yet we don't realise that time on earth has passed for other people.
DeleteGod bless, Mimi.
This is an important subject and as I am a senior citizen I am getting closer to the beautiful life in heaven. I accept Jesus as my savior and he has promised me a home there. I am sorry not everyone chooses to say yes to his invitation. So many nonbelievers say when a nonbeliever dies "they are in a better place", what place do they imagine that is, that is sad.
ReplyDeleteIndeed it is sad Terra that so many people are obstinate in their non-belief.
DeleteIt's great to see you here again. Please call more often.
God bless.
All I can say about where we go Victor is what I have shared in my own life. I had a near death experience and was told it was not my time to go, and that I must come back to life on earth. However, I know that my life changed at that moment, and I was given things to share like poems, writing etc. I went to a church and met a lady who became my friend and we were both sent out in the streets evangelizing for thirty years, and also became prison visitors to share the gospel with the prisoners there. I do believe that if we believe in Jesus we can be with Him when we die, but I also believe that we must remain in the faith, as it also says in the Bible that many shall fall away from the faith. God bless.
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for sharing your story here, Brenda, and for encouraging our readers. Indeed we should remain in the faith that Christ is our Saviour.
DeleteGod bless always.